Your daytime routine - with 3 hourly feeds and napping before (rather than after) the feed is good. Avoid feeding him more often during the night - if he is awake and crying within three hours of the previous feed, use shush pat to settle him back to sleep. If he is still awake/distressed three hours after the previous feed, then feed him and use shush pat if needed during the next three hour period.

Let us know how you get on.

reply by DT-Elisabeth - 14 weeks ago

Last night went well. Almost no intervention needed!! Dream fed at 10.30 woke again at 1.30 then 4.00 and 6.30! Fab. However at the 1.30 feed he was wet through which seems to be a bit of a pattern (I dont know why as we change him at 10.30)
Anyway finger crossed for tonight.

reply by sleepy1955 - 13 weeks ago

Great news. Try a different disposable nappy and see if that makes any difference. How did last night go?

reply by Mentor-Wendy - 13 weeks ago

Last night was hard- dreamfed 10.30 woke 12.30 shh pat til 1 when i gave in and fed him. then he slept til 4 and was a nightmare to get back to sleep after that feed. he then slept til 8 and has been quite cranky all day so the routine has been all out. He's asleep now after 30 mins of shh pat so here goes for tonight!

reply by sleepy1955 - 13 weeks ago

Let us know how you get on tonight as last night could have been a one off.

reply by DT-emily - 13 weeks ago

Well well well! What a great night! He had dream feed at 10.30 then woke at 1 with wind but I left him gurgle and toss and turn and he went back off til 2.30!!!!!! Then he woke again at 5.30 and I left him gurling until 6 when I fed him! WOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOO!!! Fingers crossed for tonight. I almost feel drunk on too much sleep!! ;-) But I'm not getting too excited as that could easily be a one off. Ooo I also think I've solved the wetting through saga- hubby does dream feed and changes nappy and, bless him, he was putting the nappy on really low down on his tummy/groin-hence wetting through (I think)
Thank you for your help-I'll post again to let you know about tonight.

reply by sleepy1955 - 13 weeks ago

That was a good improvement. What happened last night?

reply by DT-Jenny - 13 weeks ago

Well the night before last was another good one-some shh pat needed at the feed after the dream feed but generally pretty good. Last nighyt was awful again. At 3.30 he woke and would not resettle at all until 6am!!! I'm also having real trouble settling him to sleep in the first place at 7-it takes at least 45 mins to settle him and he gets into a heck of a state. It just doesn't seem to be getting any easier-what am I doing wrong? I'm just so tired and can't see the wood for the trees today :-(

reply by sleepy1955 - 13 weeks ago

You sound like you are doing brilliantly so hang in there.

I would keep doing the shush / pat as you have been. Have you tried using a soft blankie or muslin that has your smell on it (i.e. stuff it down your top) and put it in the basket with him when you put him down (lay it near his face so he gets your smell).

This made a huge difference for my son when we ditched the dummy.

Whats your thoughts on giving it a go?

x

reply by DT-Corrinna - 13 weeks ago

That's a blooming good idea! I am now sat with a muslin down my top!!! Thank you-I'll let you know how it goes. We've tried switching him from his moses into his cot (seems crazy amid all the bad sleep but it's a firmer matress and he seems to love it in there during the day if we pop him under the mobile). He actually went off to sleep easily this evening which is the first time in his little life!
Thanks again for your advice

reply by sleepy1955 - 13 weeks ago

You could get him used to being in his cot by putting the moses basket in the cot and see how he gets on. Then just have him in the cot when he gets a bit bigger (thats what I did).

Great stuff he settled well tonght :) x

reply by DT-Corrinna - 13 weeks ago

Well he's now fully used to his cot and great at going down at 7 til the 10.30 dreamfeed then he wakes just once now at 3 ish!!!!!!!! WOW great stuff thanks guys. The next step is sleeping through so fingers crossed for that!!!!

reply by sleepy1955 - 12 weeks ago

Great news :) How much milke does he take at his DF? You will find that he will get better at taking the DF and then sleep straight through so hang in there and keep us posted x

reply by DT-Corrinna - 12 weeks ago

Well it's all gone a bit haywire. We settled into a pattern of just one feed at 3am then waking at 6 for the day which was fab but he then started waking at 5.30 so i'd shh pat him back until 6. However the shh pat has become a bit of a prop for him as he won't settle without it now at any of the sleeps. He has also started waking again frequently durring the night (every 1.5hours last night! How did we get back to this???!!!?) He doesn't wake for a feed just to be shh pat until he's back to sleep- Which takes 5 mins at most.
PUPD isn't really an option for us :-( so it's going to have to be something else. Would a mix of cc and shh pat work? i.e once woken leave to settle for 5 mins then go in and calm him with shh pat and once calmed (but not asleep) leave to settle self again? And just repeat this until he's self settled.

reply by sleepy1955 - 7 weeks ago

Yes a mixture of cc and shush/pat should work. Make sure that you are not patting at the point where he falls asleep.

reply by DT-Elly - 7 weeks ago

Well things have improved; we are back to waking just twice during the night at 2.30 (feed) and 5 (just need to resettle at 5) then awake anytime from 6 to 7 (usually somewhere inbetween). How do I stop this 5 am wake up? Am I expecting too much? Our other son slept through form 3 months (terrible naps and grumpy as hell during day-but at least he sleept through!!!!!!) I just don't feel like I have any energy to give anything to my other son because I'm so tired. I know I also need to start moving feeds to 4 rather than 3 hourly but I can't for the life of me figure out how to do this and tie it in with naps etc...
Anyway our day looks like this now;
6.30 Eat
7-8 Play
8-9 Sleep (sometimes wakes after 30 mins and needs resettling)
9-9.30
9,30-10-Eat
10-11-out and about
11-11.30- nap in sling
11.30-12.30 Play
12.30-1-feed
1-3 (or maybe 3.30) Nap
3.30-4 feed
4-5 activity
5-5.30 sleep in sling or cot
5.30-6 Play
6-6.20 bath and change for bed
6.20-7.30 Eat-not constantly as a bit unsettled
10.30 DF starting to wake for this now
2.30 Feed
5 wake and resettle
6.30 up for the day
He is still relying on shh pat a bit for naps but he settled himself tonight so fingers crossed we're cracking that!

reply by sleepy1955 - 6 weeks ago

The 5am waking should stretch to 6am if you are being very consistent, keeping him bed until gone 6am and he is not using any kind of prop. How does he fall asleep at bedtime? How are you re-settling him at 5am?

reply by Mentor-Wendy - 6 weeks ago

Thanks for your reply. At bedtime we're doing 5 mins of trying to settle himself then going in and doing 2 mins shh pat then leaving again for another 5 mins. He has managed to settle himself twice now like that. At the 5am waking we reduce the time of him trying to self settle to 2 mins and then shh pat for 2 mins-but so far he only falls back during the shh pat bit.

reply by sleepy1955 - 6 weeks ago

Hi, carry on staying consistent with this then and try to give him enough time to self settle, keep him in his cot until after 6am and you should see an improvement with his waking. Keep us posted.

reply by DT-emily - 6 weeks ago

Yep consistency is the key I guess-it's certainly been the case for teaching him to settle himself as he did it totally on his own tonight I didn't go in at all! It's so lovely to hear him cooing away and then just drift off. I had to go in just to check he was ok as I couldn't believe he didn't need shh pat to help him!!! Well done that man! Here's to the night ahead ;-)

reply by sleepy1955 - 6 weeks ago

How did it go?

reply by Mentor-Wendy - 6 weeks ago

Very very well!!! Woke at 2.50 for a feed then woke at 5 but just gurggled and resettled without me having to get up at all! Fantastic. Thanks for your encouragement and support guys-i don't think this is it by any means but I can see a light at the end of the tunnel now-let's hope there's more good nights to come. I'll keep you posted

reply by sleepy1955 - 6 weeks ago

How did last night go?

reply by DT-Jenny - 6 weeks ago

Not great- he woke at 2 so I resettled him. He then woke at 2.45 and I fed him. Woke again at 5 and eventually up for the day at 6. I've noticed a bit of a pattern emerging around feeding-he feeds very poorly throughout the day but brilliantly at night. He's gaining well so he's getting enough calories but obviously I want him to take them in the day rather than at night. We are hoping to start to head toward a 4 hourly feeding routine on the weekend (rather than a 3 hourly one) so maybe this will help?

reply by sleepy1955 - 5 weeks ago

Sounds like you are staying fairly consistent. Did he feed at bedtime, 2ish and after 6 last night?

reply by Mentor-Wendy - 5 weeks ago

Yes he fed well at bedtime last night-I made sure by topping him up with 2oz of expressed milk (of which he only took 1 and a half oz). The feeds that are poor are the first feed of the day and the 9.30am and the 12.30 feed-he then seems to feed fairly well i.e. the late arvo and night feeds at 3.30, 7, 10.30 and 2.30. At night I make sure that I don't feed him until 2.30 (4 hours after the last feed).
Today has gone pretty well after deciding last night to move ds to a 4 hourly feeding routine-we started today at 7 with a feed
7am small breast feed
7.30-8.30 play
8.30-9.15 am nap
9.15-10.30 Out and about
10.30-11 nap
11-11.30-fairly good feed
11.30-12.30 Play
12.30-2.30 Nap
2.45 Massive feed
3.50-4.10 Nap-fell asleep in car
4.10-6.10 play and bath
6.10-6.50 Feed good feed plus 1oz top up
6.50-7.20 settle to sleep (gurgles then falls asleep on own)
My plan for the rest of the night is to df at 10.30 then only feed again at 2,30 if he wakes.
Here goes...

reply by sleepy1955 - 5 weeks ago

That is an excellent plan - how did it go?

reply by Mentor-Wendy - 5 weeks ago

Last night was as follows-
7.20pm-10.30pm sleep
10.30pm-11pm Dream feed 7oz
11pm-3am sleep
3-3.30am Feed
3.30-5.15am sleep
5.15am needed to settle back to sleep
6.20am woke for the day
7am Feed
I just can't shake this 5am wake up :-(
The day feeding is going well though on a 4 hourly sched so far.

reply by sleepy1955 - 5 weeks ago

Early waking often takes longer to solve than any other aspect of sleep so patience & persistence is key (hard to be patient at 5am I know!). Your feeding schedule is spot on day & night so don't change anything there. Making sure he's aware of going back into his cot after the 3am feed will help your efforts - give him a not too gentle kiss & say night night as he goes into the cot so he knows where he is, stirs a little & settles himself off.

If he wakes before 6am, keep him in his cot til 6am, comforting if he's crying or just leaving him to it if he's just grizzling or shuffling about. In time he'll start going back to sleep before 6am & eventually won't wake at all. Once it gets to 6am, if he's awake, get him up for the day. Have you got black out blinds - they're essential at this time of year?

Keep us posted.

reply by Mentor-Sarah - 5 weeks ago

Thanks guys for your continued support-it's so reassuring to know that there's help and understanding out there!
Well we've also decided to move ds into his own room as of tonight. I think that we may be disrupting him with Hubby's snoring and turning over etc... so we're hoping that helps a bit.
He settled himself easily tonight so that's s good start-oh yeh a quick question about self settling is it common for it to be harder for them to settle self for naps? He's never managed it yet-always falls asleep with my assistance and then needs more help getting back off if he wakes early from a nap.
Thanks again

reply by sleepy1955 - 5 weeks ago

Yes naps do take longer to sort than the nights. Once he is consistently going through and waking after 6am, you can start to get him self-settling for 1 nap per day.

reply by Mentor-Wendy - 5 weeks ago

Great thanks for that-it's good to know it's normal. Last night and todat have been a right off- he has a cold and is v grumpy. Hasn't fed well at all today so we'll see what tonight brings :-)

reply by sleepy1955 - 5 weeks ago

Oh dear - it all goes a bit pear shaped when they're poorly doesn't it? Wait until he's better then pick up where you left off. Keep us posted & hope he's better soon.

reply by Mentor-Sarah - 5 weeks ago

Ah thanks, will do. Poor mite full of cold. I'll be posting again when better

reply by sleepy1955 - 4 weeks ago

Speak soon. x

reply by Mentor-Sarah - 4 weeks ago

Well we've all had a illness one way or another but we're back and aiming to get back on track. Actually the wee mans cold has done us a favour because he no longer wakes at 5 am. Well actually I'm not gonna give the cold credit I'm gonna claim it and put it down to consistency and support from you guys so ta very very much!!! My next aim is to stop night feed altogether so here we go!!!! So far he has a dreamfeed at 10.30 then wakes anytime from 2.30 to 3.50 for a feed then wakes for the day between 6 and 7. At the night feed at 2.30ish he doesn't gulp hungrily so I recon I can begin to slowly wean him off this feed. How do I go about it? With my first child I watered down his formular but I am still feeding this young man myself and can't go down that route this time....what can I do???
Thanks in advance for what I know will be top notch advice!

reply by sleepy1955 - 3 weeks ago

Hi, you can still use milk reduction whilst breast feeding. Time a normal night feed and then reduce by 2 minutes every night. If he feeds for longer than 20 minutes, then start the timing at 20 minutes. Keep us posted with how its going.

reply by DT-Jenny - 3 weeks ago

Of course!!!! Fab. Right, will time how long it takes tonight (must not doze!!!)

reply by sleepy1955 - 3 weeks ago

Keep us posted.

reply by DT-Elly - 3 weeks ago

Right well he took 25 mins last night (very dozey feed so not much taken) so i guess tonight I stop him after 20 mins. Fingers crossed.

reply by sleepy1955 - 3 weeks ago

Generally you can start from 20 minutes and then decrease by a couple of minutes every night. Keep us posted with how its going.

reply by Mentor-Wendy - 3 weeks ago

He's started waking frequently at night again so I'm just back to getting him to consistently wake just once! Boy this son of mine is prooving tough! I really am being consistant and not feeding him at 5.15 but he keeps on waking. Thought we'd cracked it but alas no! I'm starting to think about cc to crack our problems-would this do it once and for all?? Oh I don't bloomin know anymore. I'll be back again soon.

reply by sleepy1955 - 2 weeks ago

We really need more information on what is happening through the night - describe last night and we can take it from there.

reply by Mentor-Wendy - 2 weeks ago

Our night is as follows;
6pm Bath
6.30pm -7pm Feed
7pm sing a song, lay in cot fully awake and giggling (!) kiss firmly and say night night God bless, leave room (usually coo a bit the just goes to sleep-if any intervention needed it's only ever just another firm kiss and repeat night nght)
10.30pm Husband changes nappy and dream feeds him 8oz lays him down and leaves (he is often asleep but sometimes he's awake and he then just settles himself happily)
2.30am or whenever he wakes after this (sometimes as late as 4am!)I feed him and place him back in cot (if he wakes before this time I just shh pat back to sleep-no feed)
Between 4.30 and 5.30 wakes- leave for 3 mins then shh pat back to sleep til 6am at earliest- this was the waking we thought we had cracked as he was just waking once in the night to feed then waking at 6.30 or sometimes even 7!!!! Bliss! I really don't know where I am going wrong because he has started to need reassurance at this time of night again. Maybe teething??? I am hoping it's just a blip and if I remain consistant he'll drop it again and I can then really work on dropping the 2.30am feed
I really appreciate the support
Thanks

reply by sleepy1955 - 2 weeks ago

when you feed him around 2.30 how much is he taking? We can start looking at reducing this feed and then removing it so that he staops waking for it,if he isn't taking much he may already be waking from habit for it. If he is starting teething, give him some calpol before bedtime and at the DF and this will help, Nelsons teething granules are also a godsend if you want to try them.

reply by DT-emily - 2 weeks ago

Well we were trying to reduce the 2.30 feed by bringing it down 3 min every night (he currently feeds for 25mins) but then he started waking at 5 again!!!! Boo. Last night was great though as he only woke once so maybe it was teething (thanks for suggestion about the nelsons granules).
Right back to reducing the 2.30 feed.
So sorry I'm back and forth with this problem ladies but thank you for your help. Can't wait to crack this and get a good nights sleep!

reply by sleepy1955 - 2 weeks ago

It's fine, we're happy to help. You are doing right reducing the feed, keep us posted.

reply by DT-emily - 2 weeks ago

Wow he slept through last night!!!!! DF at 10.30pm and woke at 6.10am!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We have been reducing 2.30am feed by 2 mins (only did that 1 night) and he just didn't wake for it last night! He goes for tonight!!!!!

reply by sleepy1955 - 12 days ago